Today's most viewed
| CYBER TOWN |  | | | PIRATE'S PAST | | | | THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT | | | | AT THE CINEMA | | |
|
|
|
MP returns fire from teachers over army recruiting
 |
| FIGHTING TALK: Desmond Swayne |
A NEW Forest MP has branded teachers' calls to ban the use of army enrolment methods in schools "nonsense".
Despite the Ministry of Defence saying it does not recruit in schools and only visits students when invited, delegates at the National Union of Teachers conference voted to oppose military recruitment in the classroom if misleading propaganda was seen to be used.
But Desmond Swayne, a Territorial Army officer, who served in Iraq five years ago, said: "This is nonsense. The services do not recruit in schools. You can join at 17 but not without written parental consent. It's important military presentation teams are allowed to make pupils aware of the challenges and opportunities of service life. These opportunities should not be denied to disadvan-taged children. Teachers would do better to concern themselves with improving school discipline."
Teachers at the conference were especially worried youngsters in deprived areas were being targeted, as they do not have the same opportunities as children from wealthier backgrounds.
But Christchurch Borough councillor, Brett Bader, who set up a voluntary Combined Cadet Force at the Grange School four years ago, disagreed with the concerns.
Cllr Bader, a Territorial Army officer and former teacher said: "The Armed Forces have always provided schools with opportunities for students to challenge and personally develop themselves.
"The same opportunities are offered to all. This forms part of a balanced careers service to educate youngsters on vocational opportunities regardless of socio-economic background."
He added: "Students have inquisitive minds and are keen to test themselves. Some have an interest in joining whilst others want to find out more and become more informed citizens."
6:53am Wednesday 26th March 2008
Print 
Email this 
CommentPosted by: nickboy, Bournemouth on 7:29am Wed 26 Mar 08
Typical left-wing attitude from the NUT, howwible, horrid, nasty British armed forces - visible sign of nasty British Imperialism.
Buffoons the lot of them, like the MP says, concentrate on teaching our kids to read , write and behave.
Typical left-wing attitude from the NUT, howwible, horrid, nasty British armed forces - visible sign of nasty British Imperialism.
Buffoons the lot of them, like the MP says, concentrate on teaching our kids to read , write and behave.
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 7:48am Wed 26 Mar 08
I agree with the above, Teachers should restrict their activities to teaching. Un-elected Teachers have no right to make political decisions.
I agree with the above, Teachers should restrict their activities to teaching. Un-elected Teachers have no right to make political decisions.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 8:31am Wed 26 Mar 08
Quote from the above article -
"Teachers at the conference were especially worried youngsters in deprived areas were being targeted, as they do not have the same opportunities as children from wealthier backgrounds"
I do not understand as to why the teachers put this forward as an argument against the army recruiting at schools. If there is ‘misleading propaganda’ then obviously this needs to be corrected and reported to the recruiting officers in charge. The army can offer a [bold]superb life[/bold] for those that are fit for it and the physically orientated child who does not have the same opportunities should be allowed, and encouraged, towards [bold]the opportunity of a military career[/bold] . Something like half the commissioned officers rise through the ranks, so there are very real opportunities.
Thus I fully agree with Mr Desmond Swayne and Mr Brett Bader.
Perhaps if the physically orientated disruptive child had a real goal of a military career to motivate s/he then s/he would be less disruptive.
The 'teacher' seem to have lost the understanding that a child's education at a school needs to prepare s/he for a life in which s/he is going to have to earn a living. To do this the teachers should be teaching discipline, especially self discipline, (as in 'schooling' ) an understanding of the society into which the child was born, and a through grasp of the basic skills of reading, writing, and arithmetic, [bold]including personal accountancy[/bold] . Today’s schools seem to do little of these things, as the quality of some of the comments on newspaper threads show all to clearly !
For the National Union of Teachers to openly deny a very real opportunity to disadvantaged children seems to be [bold]an act of serious irresponsibly[/bold] and brings the whole Union movement into disrepute.
I would like to see a Government department set up with the power to issue national directives to the schools as to what is to be taught and in what manner, with the directives being based on scientific analysis and decisions made by our democratically elected representatives in the House of Commons. At present, apart from testing, the teachers seem to have little guidance or control and are able to do more or less as they please, including giving higher and higher marks to their favourites in order to enhance the ‘examination’ pass rates.
And the behaviour of many children on the streets show quite clearly that the [bold]‘schools’ are not schooling[/bold] , and are failing to do the job for which we all pay them to do through our ever increasing taxes.
Quote from the above article -
"Teachers at the conference were especially worried youngsters in deprived areas were being targeted, as they do not have the same opportunities as children from wealthier backgrounds"
I do not understand as to why the teachers put this forward as an argument against the army recruiting at schools. If there is ‘misleading propaganda’ then obviously this needs to be corrected and reported to the recruiting officers in charge. The army can offer a
superb life for those that are fit for it and the physically orientated child who does not have the same opportunities should be allowed, and encouraged, towards
the opportunity of a military career . Something like half the commissioned officers rise through the ranks, so there are very real opportunities.
Thus I fully agree with Mr Desmond Swayne and Mr Brett Bader.
Perhaps if the physically orientated disruptive child had a real goal of a military career to motivate s/he then s/he would be less disruptive.
The 'teacher' seem to have lost the understanding that a child's education at a school needs to prepare s/he for a life in which s/he is going to have to earn a living. To do this the teachers should be teaching discipline, especially self discipline, (as in 'schooling' ) an understanding of the society into which the child was born, and a through grasp of the basic skills of reading, writing, and arithmetic,
including personal accountancy . Today’s schools seem to do little of these things, as the quality of some of the comments on newspaper threads show all to clearly !
For the National Union of Teachers to openly deny a very real opportunity to disadvantaged children seems to be
an act of serious irresponsibly and brings the whole Union movement into disrepute.
I would like to see a Government department set up with the power to issue national directives to the schools as to what is to be taught and in what manner, with the directives being based on scientific analysis and decisions made by our democratically elected representatives in the House of Commons. At present, apart from testing, the teachers seem to have little guidance or control and are able to do more or less as they please, including giving higher and higher marks to their favourites in order to enhance the ‘examination’ pass rates.
And the behaviour of many children on the streets show quite clearly that the
‘schools’ are not schooling , and are failing to do the job for which we all pay them to do through our ever increasing taxes.
Posted by: Richard, Bournemouth on 10:36am Wed 26 Mar 08
The NUT always has a raft of daft motions at their conferences. Best ignored.
The NUT always has a raft of daft motions at their conferences. Best ignored.
Posted by: bob_bournemouth, Christchurch on 10:39am Wed 26 Mar 08
Typical left wing nonsense. Why do these clowns think they have a right to drum this rubbish into kids? What makes them think they have a right to re-write history to make kids "ashamed to be British", and feel we have to "apologise for our past".
This is wrong. Teachers are employed to teach skills and facts, not to moralise on dubious Marxist idealism. Politics should be kept out of classrooms, with the exception of accurately taught history, not the distorted leftie version.
The forces provide opportunities to learn skills and to achieve promotion. They also teach discipline and respect, something teachers are sadly not able to do nowadays. Opportunities to have an interesting career and learn new skills are rarely found in Industry nowadays. The forces are probably the last place where British born kids are are not at risk of being pushed out by the never ending tide of immigrants willing to work for peanuts. Learn a skilled trade in the forces or opt for a "MacDegree", your choice!!
Typical left wing nonsense. Why do these clowns think they have a right to drum this rubbish into kids? What makes them think they have a right to re-write history to make kids "ashamed to be British", and feel we have to "apologise for our past".
This is wrong. Teachers are employed to teach skills and facts, not to moralise on dubious Marxist idealism. Politics should be kept out of classrooms, with the exception of accurately taught history, not the distorted leftie version.
The forces provide opportunities to learn skills and to achieve promotion. They also teach discipline and respect, something teachers are sadly not able to do nowadays. Opportunities to have an interesting career and learn new skills are rarely found in Industry nowadays. The forces are probably the last place where British born kids are are not at risk of being pushed out by the never ending tide of immigrants willing to work for peanuts. Learn a skilled trade in the forces or opt for a "MacDegree", your choice!!
Posted by: AndyC, Bournemouth on 10:57am Wed 26 Mar 08
Oh this is divine. Lookaing at comments here and elsewhere, and talking to people, I have come to the conclusion that the NUT's proposal has had an effect.
They have raised awareness of the army, meaning more toungsters will show an interest, and many may propose the army visit their school.
The 'peaceful' NUT cannot be trusted with firearms - they have shot themselves in their collective foot.
Oh this is divine. Lookaing at comments here and elsewhere, and talking to people, I have come to the conclusion that the NUT's proposal has had an effect.
They have raised awareness of the army, meaning more toungsters will show an interest, and many may propose the army visit their school.
The 'peaceful' NUT cannot be trusted with firearms - they have shot themselves in their collective foot.
Posted by: observer, bmth on 11:22am Wed 26 Mar 08
[bold]NUT says it all[/bold]
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 11:37am Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]observer[/bold] wrote:
[bold]NUT says it all[/bold] [/quote] NUTTERS says it better
observer wrote:
NUT says it all
NUTTERS says it better
Posted by: AndyC, Bournemouth on 11:41am Wed 26 Mar 08
Oh this is divine. Lookaing at comments here and elsewhere, and talking to people, I have come to the conclusion that the NUT's proposal has had an effect.
They have raised awareness of the army, meaning more toungsters will show an interest, and many may propose the army visit their school.
The 'peaceful' NUT cannot be trusted with firearms - they have shot themselves in their collective foot.
Oh this is divine. Lookaing at comments here and elsewhere, and talking to people, I have come to the conclusion that the NUT's proposal has had an effect.
They have raised awareness of the army, meaning more toungsters will show an interest, and many may propose the army visit their school.
The 'peaceful' NUT cannot be trusted with firearms - they have shot themselves in their collective foot.
Posted by: Erica Monk, Australia on 11:52am Wed 26 Mar 08
Oh please what on earth is wrong with the Army going into Schools to show what is available to these children when leaving school & the opportunities open to them. I think it's a wonderful idea & maybe just maybe would give some of the troubles children something to seriously think about. Why wait until you finish school to decide what you are going to do with your life. Well thankyou for allowing me to have my say.
Oh please what on earth is wrong with the Army going into Schools to show what is available to these children when leaving school & the opportunities open to them. I think it's a wonderful idea & maybe just maybe would give some of the troubles children something to seriously think about. Why wait until you finish school to decide what you are going to do with your life. Well thankyou for allowing me to have my say.
Posted by: Clarance, Bournemouth on 12:05pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Another shot in the foot for the NUT. Perhaps the rare air of conference engenders daftness into delegates. But to the real world, it has done the Forces a favour by free recruiting focus and I would suggest there will be little change in schools that already allow access for the Forces into their students minds.
A lot of ill-informed information reported from conference - anything new there then?
Another shot in the foot for the NUT. Perhaps the rare air of conference engenders daftness into delegates. But to the real world, it has done the Forces a favour by free recruiting focus and I would suggest there will be little change in schools that already allow access for the Forces into their students minds.
A lot of ill-informed information reported from conference - anything new there then?
Posted by: Craig, Bournemouth on 12:40pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Agree with all the comments above. I remember one delegate stating that the British Army regularly tortures people. Do they have the facts to back this up? No, typical lefties who spoute crap without the consequences of their words....I could go with other statements such as their rejections of classes with 60/70 pupils. What the did not tell you that they get 3/4 class systems and has been proved to work in trials.
Agree with all the comments above. I remember one delegate stating that the British Army regularly tortures people. Do they have the facts to back this up? No, typical lefties who spoute crap without the consequences of their words....I could go with other statements such as their rejections of classes with 60/70 pupils. What the did not tell you that they get 3/4 class systems and has been proved to work in trials.
Posted by: AndyC, Bournemouth on 2:58pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Craig, your question about facts to back up statements was answered on radio4's Today Programme. A teacher said that the army, when visiting schools, were "untruthful". When John Humphries asked her precisely what was untruthful, the line went dead.
Craig, your question about facts to back up statements was answered on radio4's Today Programme. A teacher said that the army, when visiting schools, were "untruthful". When John Humphries asked her precisely what was untruthful, the line went dead.
Posted by: Craig, Bournemouth on 3:44pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Many thanks AndyC,
One of the funny things that the teachers said was that the army adverts glamourize the jobs they offer. Doesn't everyone?
It's a shame really that my holiday is next week. I could of watched the loony NUT's on TV and educate the kids about the Union's in the 70's. Striking over a single dead loo bulb and all...dark days indeed.
Why no teacher response??? Most of them are on holiday this week aren't they??
Many thanks AndyC,
One of the funny things that the teachers said was that the army adverts glamourize the jobs they offer. Doesn't everyone?
It's a shame really that my holiday is next week. I could of watched the loony NUT's on TV and educate the kids about the Union's in the 70's. Striking over a single dead loo bulb and all...dark days indeed.
Why no teacher response??? Most of them are on holiday this week aren't they??
Posted by: beachhut, southbourne on 6:23pm Wed 26 Mar 08
The Armed Forces should make it clear that they are only looking to recruit bright outstanding students. The day when anyone could get in has long gone, wars are no longer engaged using cannon foder, it more technical nowadays. Now tell that to the NUT, and they will be up in arms saying the Forces are discriminating against the lower classes and not offering an opportunity for the less gifted to better themselves in the modern forces. Why not get a certain Mr Capello in to teach them respect etc, look what's happened to the England squad of miss fits. "What have the Romans ever done for us"?? maybe we will find out.
The Armed Forces should make it clear that they are only looking to recruit bright outstanding students. The day when anyone could get in has long gone, wars are no longer engaged using cannon foder, it more technical nowadays. Now tell that to the NUT, and they will be up in arms saying the Forces are discriminating against the lower classes and not offering an opportunity for the less gifted to better themselves in the modern forces. Why not get a certain Mr Capello in to teach them respect etc, look what's happened to the England squad of miss fits. "What have the Romans ever done for us"?? maybe we will find out.
Posted by: Christopher, Wallisdown & Winton West on 6:29pm Wed 26 Mar 08
How ridiculous the NUT are in their theory. However, having worked in schools, I am sure this is not the view of all.
I also was part of the Recruitment Team when I served in the Armed Forces, visiting schools, and have Career stands at fetes etc. At schools we were always welcomed by the Staff and the children, as we were at fetes. School Days at Sea was another great recruitment drive.
I was also part of the Sea Cadet Corps, training youngsters in all aspects of the Maritime World.
On all drives, no one was forced to join. We just passed over the information and training.
As pointed out by the MP, 17 and under, a signature from a parent or next of kin is needed.
By the way I was 14 when I enjoyed a recruitment lecture from the Navy.
How ridiculous the NUT are in their theory. However, having worked in schools, I am sure this is not the view of all.
I also was part of the Recruitment Team when I served in the Armed Forces, visiting schools, and have Career stands at fetes etc. At schools we were always welcomed by the Staff and the children, as we were at fetes. School Days at Sea was another great recruitment drive.
I was also part of the Sea Cadet Corps, training youngsters in all aspects of the Maritime World.
On all drives, no one was forced to join. We just passed over the information and training.
As pointed out by the MP, 17 and under, a signature from a parent or next of kin is needed.
By the way I was 14 when I enjoyed a recruitment lecture from the Navy.
Posted by: MIG, Poole on 7:36pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Do schools still have Army/combined Cadet Corps? or have the NUT got rid of them already?
The Cadet corps used to be a natural stepping stone to the armed forces, no need for any further publicity, the enthusiasm just grew with the experience.
Also, do the NUT propose to stop Police from visiting schools as well, and even Railway Safety teams, in case they might be trying to recruit...
Do schools still have Army/combined Cadet Corps? or have the NUT got rid of them already?
The Cadet corps used to be a natural stepping stone to the armed forces, no need for any further publicity, the enthusiasm just grew with the experience.
Also, do the NUT propose to stop Police from visiting schools as well, and even Railway Safety teams, in case they might be trying to recruit...
Posted by: ishmael, Dorset on 8:18pm Wed 26 Mar 08
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
1953
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
1953
Posted by: Christopher, Wallisdown & Winton West on Thu 27 Mar 08
Yes Mig of Poole. They do. Bournemouth School for Boys has a CCF Unit. The conurbations of Bournemouth and Poole have 4 Sea Cadet Units, plus Air Corps, and Army Cadets all attended by School kids, 10 to 18 years.
Churches accomodate virtually all the Sea Scouts, Scouts, Cubs, Brownies, Guides, Beavers. Is the church against this sort of thing. Most of the latter will move on to the former mentioned groups, and then on to who knows where.
As I said in my earlier comment. I do not think all members of the NUT are with this motion.
Yes Mig of Poole. They do. Bournemouth School for Boys has a CCF Unit. The conurbations of Bournemouth and Poole have 4 Sea Cadet Units, plus Air Corps, and Army Cadets all attended by School kids, 10 to 18 years.
Churches accomodate virtually all the Sea Scouts, Scouts, Cubs, Brownies, Guides, Beavers. Is the church against this sort of thing. Most of the latter will move on to the former mentioned groups, and then on to who knows where.
As I said in my earlier comment. I do not think all members of the NUT are with this motion.
Posted by: ishmael, Dorset on 7:00am Thu 27 Mar 08
Come, children; join the army and see the world - Deep Cut, Basra, Helmand...
Come, children; join the army and see the world - Deep Cut, Basra, Helmand...
Posted by: norbitonpaul on 8:51am Thu 27 Mar 08
Anyone seen those TV adverts for teacher recruitment recently? Talk about glamourising the profession. Didn't see much attempt to show the reality of teaching at the coalface. Namely, managing delinquent and disorderly kids.
Anyone seen those TV adverts for teacher recruitment recently? Talk about glamourising the profession. Didn't see much attempt to show the reality of teaching at the coalface. Namely, managing delinquent and disorderly kids.
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 10:27pm Thu 27 Mar 08
What a waste of space you are,when others have fought,and given their lives.
What a waste of space you are,when others have fought,and given their lives.
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 10:28pm Thu 27 Mar 08
What a waste of space you are,when others have fought,and given their lives.
What a waste of space you are,when others have fought,and given their lives.
What are these links for?
If you liked this article and would like to share it with others on the web who might be searching for good content we've made it easy for you to do it.
At the bottom of all articles, you'll see links to six sites. These sites - commonly called 'social bookmark' or 'social news' sites - have large communities of web users who share and rate interesting, useful and fun things on the web.
Clicking the links will automatically add the address of the story you are reading to one of these sites, letting you share it with others. Each site will ask you to register to share stories. Registration is free and once a member, you can store, recommend and search for stories that interest you.
More on Digg
More on del.icio.us
More on Furl
More on reddit
More on NowPublic/
More on Yahoo!
